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1. The snowball Trinity versus the Father Almighty

The snowball Trinity versus the Father Almighty Who is the real God? A tri nity of persons (The Trinity) or just one person, the F at h...

Tuesday, 4 October 2016

138. Early Arians infected with trinitarian ideas

Early Arians infected with trinitarian ideas 

Quotes from Thalia, by Arius. See the infection, you can't find the "Triad, Monad, Dyad" in the Bible. "So there is a Triad, not in equal glories.
Their beings (hypostaseis) are not mixed together among themselves. (Marcellus of Ankyra testified that the followers of Arius were "trinitarians, who believed in three hypostases")
As far as their glories, one infinitely more glorious than the other.
The Father in his essence (ousia) is a foreigner to the Son, because he exists without beginning.
Understand that the Monad [eternally] was; but the Dyad was not before it came into existence.
It immediately follows that, although the Son did not exist, the Father was still God.
Hence the Son, not being [eternal] came into existence by the Father’s will,
He is the Only-begotten God, and this one is alien from [all] others" Trinity

In the fourth-century, Marcellus of Ancyra declared that the idea of the Godhead existing as three hypostases (hidden spiritual realities) came from Plato through the teachings of Valentinus,[9] who is quoted as teaching that God is three hypostases and three prosopa (persons) called the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit:

Now with the heresy of the Ariomaniacs, which has corrupted the Church of God... These then teach three hypostases, just as Valentinus the heresiarch first invented in the book entitled by him 'On the Three Natures'. For he was the first to invent three hypostases and three persons of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, and he is discovered to have filched this from Hermes and Plato.[10]

Since Valentinus had used the term hypostases, his name came up in the Arian disputes in the fourth century. Marcellus of Ancyra was a staunch opponent of Arianism, but also denounced the belief in God existing in three hypostases as heretical, and was later condemned for his teachings. Marcellus attacked his opponents (On the Holy Church, 9) by linking them to Valentinus:

Valentinus, the leader of a sect, was the first to devise the notion of three subsistent entities (hypostases), in a work that he entitled On the Three Natures. For, he devised the notion of three subsistent entities and three persons — father, son, and holy spirit.[11]
Wikipedia


For many, who don't know  "He taught that the Father alone is God". No, he din not. Arius was a trinitarian, see what he wrote in his hymnal book, the Thalia: "Certainly there is a Trinity .. and they possess glories of different levels (δόξαις οὐχ ὁμοίαις)"
Αὐτὸς γοῦν ὁ θεὸς καθό ἐστιν ἄρρητος ἅπασιν ὑπάρχει.
... And so God Himself, as he really is, is inexpressible to all.
ἴσον οὐδὲ ὅμοιον, οὐχ ὁμόδοξον ἔχει μόνος οὗτος.
He alone has no equal, no one similar (homoios), and no one of the same glory.
ἀγέννητον δὲ αὐτόν φαμεν διὰ τὸν τὴν φύσιν γεννητόν·
We call him unbegotten, in contrast to him who by nature is begotten.
τοῦτον ἄναρχον ἀνυμνοῦμεν διὰ τὸν ἀρχὴν ἔχοντα,
We praise him as without beginning in contrast to him who has a beginning.
ἀίδιον δὲ αὐτὸν σέβομεν διὰ τὸν ἐν χρόνοις γεγαότα.
We worship him as timeless, in contrast to him who in time has come to exist.
ἀρχὴν τὸν υἰὸν ἔθηκε τῶν γενητῶν ὁ ἄναρχος
He who is without beginning made the Son a beginning of created things
καὶ ἤνεγκεν εἰς υἱὸν ἑαυτῷ τόνδε τεκνοποιήσας,
He produced him as a son for himself by begetting him.
ἴδιον οὐδὲν ἔχει τοῦ θεοῦ καθ᾽¦ ὑπόστασιν ἰδιότητος,
He [the son] has none of the distinct characteristics of God’s own being (kat’ hypostasis)
οὐδὲ γάρ ἐστιν ἴσος, ἀλλ’ οὐδὲ ὁμοούσιος αὐτῷ.
For he is not equal to, nor is he of the same being (homoousios) as him.
σοφὸς δέ ἐστιν ὁ θεός, ὅτι τῆς σοφίας διδάσκαλος αύτός.
God is wise, for he himself is the teacher of Wisdom
ἱκανὴ δὲ ἀπόδειξις ὅτι ὁ θεὸς ἀόρατος ἅπασι,
Sufficient proof that God is invisible to all:
τοῖς τε διὰ υἱοῦ καὶ αὐτῷ τῷ υἱῷ ἀόρατος ὁ αὐτός.
He is invisible both to things which were made through the Son, and also to the Son himself.
ῥητῶς δὲ λέχω, πῶς τῷ υἱῷ ὁρᾶται ὁ ἀόρατος·
I will say specifically how the invisible is seen by the Son:
τῇ δυνάμει ᾗ δύναται ὁ θεὸς ἰδεῖν· ἰδίοις τε μέτροις
by that power by which God is able to see, each according to his own measure,
ὑπομένει ὁ υἱὸς ἰδεῖν τὸν πατέρα, ὡς θέμις ἐστίν.
the Son can bear to see the Father, as is determined
ἤγουν τριάς ἐστι δόξαις οὐχ ὁμοίαις, ἀνεπίμικτοι ἑαυταῖς εἰσιν αἱ ὑποστάσεις αὐτῶν,
So there is a Triad, not in equal glories. Their beings (hypostaseis) are not mixed together among themselves.
μία τῆς μιᾶς ἐνδοξοτέρα δόξαις ἐπ’ ἄπειρον.
As far as their glories, one infinitely more glorious than the other.
ξένος τοῦ υἱοῦ κατ’ οὐσίαν ὁ πατήρ, ὅτι ἄναρχος ὐπάρχει.
The Father in his essence (ousia) is a foreigner to the Son, because he exists without beginning.
σύνες ὅτι ἡ μονὰς ἦν, ἡ δυὰς δὲ οὐκ ἦν, πρὶν ὑπάρξῃ.
Understand that the Monad [eternally] was; but the Dyad was not before it came into existence.
αὐτίκα γοῦν υἱοῦ μὴ ὄντος ὁ πατὴρ θεός ἐστι.
It immediately follows that, although the Son did not exist, the Father was still God.
λοιπὸν ὁ υἰὸς οὐκ ὢν (ὐπῆρξε δὲ θελήσει πατρῴᾳ)
Hence the Son, not being [eternal] came into existence by the Father’s will,
μονογενὴς θεός ἐστι καὶ ἑκατέρων ἀλλότριος οὗτος.
He is the Only-begotten God, and this one is alien from [all] others
ἡ σοφία σοφία ὑπῆρξε σοφοῦ θεοῦ θελήσει.
Wisdom came to be Wisdom by the will of the Wise God.
επινοεῖται γοῦν μυρίαις ὅσαις ἐπινοίαις πνεῦμα, δύναμις, σοφία,
Hence he is conceived in innumerable aspects. He is Spirit, Power, Wisdom,
δόξα θεοῦ, ἀλήθειά τε καὶ εἰκὼν καὶ λόγος οὗτος.
God’s glory, Truth, Image, and Word.
σύνες ὅτι καὶ ἀπαύγασμα καὶ φῶς ἐπινοεῖται.
Understand that he is also conceived of as Radiance and Light.
ἴσον μὲν τοῦ υἱοῦ γεννᾶν δυνατός ἐστιν ὁ κρείττων,
The one who is superior is able to beget one equal to the Son,
διαφορώτερον δὲ ἢ κρείττονα ἢ μείζονα οὐχί.
But not someone more important, or superior, or greater.
θεοῦ ¦ θελήσει ὁ υἱὸς ἡλίκος καὶ ὅσος ἐστίν,
At God’s will the Son has the greatness and qualities that he has.
ἐξ ὅτε καὶ ἀφ’ οὖ καὶ ἀπὸ τότε ἐκ τοῦ θεοῦ ὑπέστη,
His existence from when and from whom and from then — are all from God.
ἰσχυρὸς θεὸς ὢν τὸν κρείττονα ἐκ μέρους ὑμνεῖ.
He, though strong God, praises in part (ek merous) his superior.
συνελόντι εἰπεῖν τῷ υἱῷ ὁ θεὀς ἄρρητος ὑπάρχει·
In brief, God is inexpressible to the Son.
ἔστι γὰρ ἑαυτῷ ὅ ἐστι τοῦτ‘ ἔστιν ἄλεκτος,
For he is in himself what he is, that is, indescribable,
ὥστε οὐδὲν τῶν λεγομένων κατά τε κατάληψιν συνίει ἐξειπεῖν ὁ υἱός.
So that the son does not comprehend any of these things or have the understanding to explain them.
ἀδύνατα γὰρ αὐτῷ τὸν πατέρα τε ἐξιχνιάσει, ὅς ἐστιν ἐφ’ ἑαυτοῦ.
For it is impossible for him to fathom the Father, who is by himself.
αὐτὸς γὰρ ὁ υἱὸς τὴν ἑαυτοῦ οὐσίαν οὐκ οἶδεν,
For the Son himself does not even know his own essence (ousia),
υἱὸς γὰρ ὢν θελήσει πατρὸς ὑπῆρξεν ἀληθῶς.
For being Son, his existence is most certainly at the will of the Father.
τίς γοῦν λόγος συγχωρεῖ τὸν ἐκ πατρὸς ὄντα
What reasoning allows, that he who is from the Father
αὐτὸν τὸν γεννήσαντα γνῶναι ἐν καταλήψει;
should comprehend and know his own parent?
δῆλον γὰρ ὅτι τὸ αρχὴν ἔχον, τὸν ἄναρχον, ὡς ἔστιν,
For clearly that which has a beginning
ἐμπερινοῆσαι ἢ ἐμπεριδράξασθαι οὐχ οἷόν τέ ἐστιν.
is not able to conceive of or grasp the existence of that which has no beginning.
A slightly different edition of the fragment of the Thalia from De Synodis is given by G.C. Stead,[63] and served as the basis for a translation by R.P.C. Hanson.[64] Stead argued that the Thalia was written in anapestic meter, and edited the fragment to show what it would look like in anapests with different line breaks. Hanson based his translation of this fragment directly on Stead's text. Here is Stead's edition with Hanson's translation.
Αύτὸς γοῦν ὁ θεὸς καθό ἐστ’ [ιν] ἄρρετος ἅπασιν ὑπαρχει
God himself, therefore, in himself remains mysterious (ἄρρετος).
ἴσον οὐ δὲ ὅμοιον, οὐχ ὁμόδοξον ἔχει μόνοσ οὗτος
He alone has no equal, none like him, none of equal glory.
ἀγέν[ν]ητον δ’αὐτόν φαμεν διὰ τὸν τὴν φύσιν γεννετόν
We call him unoriginated (ἀγέν[ν]ητον) in contrast to him who is originated by nature ...
τοῦτον ... ἄναρχον ἀνυμνοῦμεν διὰ τὸν ἀρχὴν ἔχοντα
we praise him as without beginning in contrast to him who has a beginning,
ἀΐδιον δ’αὐτὸν σέβομεν διὰ τὸν ἐν χρόνοις γεγαότα.
we worship him as eternal in contrast to him who came into existence in times (χρόνοις).
ἀρχὴν τὸν υἰὸν ἔθηκε τῶν γεννητῶν ὁ ἄναρχος
He who was without beginning made the Son a beginning of all things which are produced (γεννήτῶν),
καὶ ἤνεγκεν εἰς υἱον ἑαυτῷ τόνδε τεκνοποιήσας.
and he made him into a Son for himself; begetting (τεκνοποιήσας) him.
ἴδιον οὐδεν ἔχει τοῦ θεοῦ καθ᾽ὑπόστασιν ἰδιότητος
He (the Son) has nothing peculiar to (ἴδιον) God according to the reality of that which is peculiarly his (καθ᾽ὑπόστασιν ἰδιότητος),
οὐδὲ γάρ ἐστιν ἴσος ... ἀλλ’ οὐδ’ ὁμοούσιος αὐτῷ.
and he is not equal ... far less is he consubstantial (ὁμοούσιος) to him (God).
σοφὸς [δ’] ἐστιν ὁ θεὸς, ὅτι τῆς σοφίας διδάσκαλος αύτός.
And God is wise because he is the Teacher of Wisdom.
ἱκανὴ δὲ ἀπόδειξις ὅτι ὁ θεὸς ἀόρατος ἅπασι
As a sufficient proof that God is invisible (ἀόρατος) to all,
τοῖς τε δι’ υἱοῦ καὐτῷ τῷ υἱ(ῷ) ἀόρατος ὁ αὐτός...
that he is invisible to the Son’s people and to the Son himself...
ῥητῶς δ’ <ἐγὼ> λέχω πῶς τῷ υἱῷ ὁρᾶτ’ ὁ ἀόρατος·
I will declare roundly, how the invisible can be visible to the Son:
τῇ δυνάμει ᾗ δύνατ’ ὁ θεὸς ἰδεῖν ἰδίοις. . τε μέτροις
by the power in which God can see, according to his individual ... capacities (ἰδίοις ... τε μέτροις)
ὑπομένει ὁ υἱὸς ἰδεῖν ... τὸν πατέρ’ ὡς θέμις ἐστιν.
the Son is able to see... the Father as is determined (θέμις).
ἤγουν τριάς ἐστιν ... δόξαις οὐχ ὁμοίαις
Certainly there is a Trinity .. and they possess glories of different levels (δόξαις οὐχ ὁμοίαις)
ἀνεπίμικτοι ἑαυταῖς [εἰσιν] αἱ ὑποστάσεις αὐτῶν
their individual realities (ὑποστάσεις) do not mix with each other,
μία τῆς μιᾶς ἐνδοξοτέρα δοξαῖς ἐπ’ ἄπειρον.
The sole glory is of the Sole (μία τῆς μιᾶς), infinitely more splendid in his glories.
ξένος τοῦ υἱοῦ κατ’ οὐσίαν ὁ πατήρ ὅτι ἄναρχος ὐπάρχει.
The father is in his substance (οὐσίαν) alien (ξένος) from the Son because he reamains without beginning.
σύνες <οὖν> ὅτι ἡ μονὰς ἦν, ἡ δυὰς δ’ οὐκ ἦν πρὶν ὑπάρξῃ.
Understand therefore that the Mondad (μονὰς) existed, but the Dyad (δυὰς) did not exist before it attained existence.
αὐτίκα γοῦν υἱοῦ μὴ ὄντος ὁ πατὴρ θεός ἐστι.

λοιπὸν ὁ υἱὸς οὐκ ὢν (ὐπῆρξε<ν> δὲ θελήσει πατρῴᾳ)
So the Son having not existed attained existence by the Father’s will.
μονογενὴς θεός ἐστι<ν> κἀ κατέρων ἀλλότριος οὗτος.
He is only-begotten God and he is different from any others.
ἡ σοφία σοφία ὑπῆρξε σοφοῦ θεοῦ θελήσει.
Wisdom became Wisdom by the will of the wise God,
επινοεῖται γοῦν μυρίαις ὅσαις ἐπινοίαις
and so he is apprehended in an uncountable number of aspects (ἐπινοίαις).
πνεῦμα ... δύναμις, σοφία,

δόξα θεοῦ, ἀλήθειά τε καὶ εἰκὼν καὶ λόγος οὗτος.
He is God’s Glory and Truth, and Image and Word.
σύνες ὅτι καὶ ἀπαύγασμά <τε> καὶ φῶς ἐπινοεῖται.
Understand too that he is apprehended as Reflection (ἀπαύγασμα) also and Light.
ἴσον μὲν τοῦ υἱοῦ’ γεννᾶν δυνατός ἐστιν ὁ κρείττων
The Greater One is able to beget (γεννᾶν) someone equal to the Son,
διαφορώτερον δ’ ἢ κρείττονα ἢ μείζονα, οὐχί.
but not someone more important or more powerful or greater.
θεοῦ θελήσει ὁ υἱὸς ἡλίκος καὶ ὅσος ἐστὶν,
It is by the will of God that the Son has his stature and character (ἡλίκος καὶ ὅσος)
ἐξ ὅτε κἀφ’ οὖ κἀπὸ τότ’ ἐκ τοῦ θεοῦ ὑπέστη.
when and whence and from what time he is from God.
ἰσχυρὸς <γὰρ> θεὸς ὢν τὸν κρείττονα ἐκ μέρους ὑμνεῖ.
For he is the Mighty God [i.e., the Son, Isa 9:15] and in some degree (ἐκ μέρους) worships the Greater.
συνελόντι εἰπεῖν τῷ υἱῷ ὁ θεὸς ἄρρητος ὑπάρχει
To summarize, God is mysterious (ἄρρητος) to the Son,
ἔστι γὰρ ἁυτῷ ὅ ἐστι<ν>, τοῦτ’ ἔστιν ἄλεκτος,
for he is to him that which he is, i.e. ineffable (ἄλεκτος),
ὥστ’ οὐδὲν τῶν λεγομένων ... κατά τε κατάληψιν
so that none of the things spoken ... [text is corrupt for some words ]
συνίει ἐξειπεῖν ὁ υἱός, ἀδύνατα γὰρ αὐτῷ
 ... for it is impossible for him
τὸν πατέρα τε ἐξιχνιάσαι ὅς ἐστιν ἐφ’ αὑτοῦ·
to trace out in the case of the Father what he is in himself.
αὐτὸς γὰρ ὁ υἱὸς τὴν αὑτοῦ οὐσίαν οὐκ οἶδεν
Indeed the Son himself does not know his own substance (ousia),
υἱὸς γὰρ ὢν θελήσει πατρὸς ὑπῆρξεν ἀληθῶς.
for though he is the Son he is really so by the will of the Father.
τίς γοῦν λόγος συγχωρεῖ τὸν ἐκ πατρὸς ὄντα
For what sense does it make that he who is from the Father
αὐτὸν τὸν γεννήσαντα ... γνῶν’ ἐν καταλήψει;
should [text corrupt] in comprehending his own begetter?
δῆλον γὰρ ὅτι τὸ αρχὴν <τιν’> ἔχον, τὸν ἄναρχον ὅς ἐστιν
For it is clear that that which has a beginning, of him who is without beginning the nature (ὡς ἔστιν)
ἐμπερινοῆσ’ ἢ ἐμπεριδράξασθ’ οὐχ οἷόν τέ ἐστιν.
could not possibly comprehend or grasp.

1. The snowball Trinity versus the Father Almighty
2. He is "Yehowah": God's holy name
3. The story of The rich man and the beggar Lazarus: A fake, a literal history or a parable?
See why is a fake...
Try with Google Translate from Romanian

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